A P2P messenger with dual network modes (Fast and Tor)

Hello HN,I have been working on a desktop P2P messenger called Kiyeovo for the last ~8 months, and I just published its beta version.Quick backstory: It started out as a CLI application for my Graduate Thesis, where I tried to make the most secure and private messenger application possible. Then, I transformed it into a desktop application, gave it "clearnet" support and added a bunch of features.Short summary:The app runs in 2 completely isolated modes:- fast mode: relay/DCUtR -> lower latency, calls support- anonymous mode: Tor message routing -> slower, anonymousThese modes use different protocol IDs, DHT namespaces, pubsub topics and storage scopes so there’s no data crossover between them.Messaging works peer-to-peer when both parties are online, but falls back to DHT "offline buckets" when one of them is not. To ensure robustness, messages are ACK-ed and deleted after being read.Group chats use GossipSub for realtime messaging. Group messages are also saved to offline buckets in order for offline users to be able to read them upon logging in. Kick/Join/Leave events are also propagated using the DHT. Group metadata and all offline data is of course encrypted.Other features: Chats are E2E, file sharing is supported, 1:1 audio/video calls are supported (only in fast mode though, using WebRTC)Tradeoffs: Tor has noticeable latency, offline delivery is not immediately guaranteed, but rather "eventually consistent"; beta version does not have group calls yet.I’d appreciate feedback, that's why I posted this as a beta versionRepo: https://github.com/Realman78/Kiyeovo

Hacker NewsApr 2ToolEducationSource

FL score

out of 100

Verdict

VALIDATE

high confidence

Competition

competitors found, emerging market

Trend

No signal yet

A technically impressive P2P messenger with dual fast/Tor modes for privacy, but faces immense challenges in user adoption and monetization against entrenched, free competitors.

The pain

Users suffer from a lack of digital privacy, data collection by mainstream messengers, spam, scams, and limited end-to-end encryption. There's a strong desire for more secure and anonymous communication.

The gap

The gap is for a messenger offering both high-speed, feature-rich communication (like calls) and high-anonymity (Tor) within a single, secure application, without data crossover. Existing secure messengers often optimize for one or the other, or lack the dual-mode flexibility. However, it's not clear there's a strong *demand* for this specific dual-mode gap, rather than just 'better privacy'.

Build angle

Build a P2P messenger with distinct 'Fast' (relay/DCUtR, WebRTC calls) and 'Anonymous' (Tor routing, no calls) modes, ensuring strict isolation between them. Focus on robust E2E encryption, file sharing, and eventually consistent offline delivery with offline buckets.

Strengths

Addresses a real and growing pain point: digital privacy and security.
Unique technical differentiator with dual network modes (Fast and Tor).
Strong technical execution demonstrated by the beta and thesis background.
Market for decentralized/Web3 messaging is projected to grow significantly.
No funded competitors directly for 'dual-mode P2P messenger' specifically, though many free privacy apps exist.

Risks

Massive network effect in messaging makes user acquisition extremely difficult.
Expectation of free secure messengers (Signal, Tox, Session) severely limits monetization potential.
Lack of clear, specific market demand for the 'dual-mode' feature beyond general privacy concerns.
High build complexity and ongoing maintenance for a solo builder.
Difficulty in achieving feature parity and user experience of well-resourced incumbents.
'Eventually consistent' offline delivery and Tor latency are trade-offs users might not accept.

Next steps

Conduct in-depth user interviews with privacy-conscious individuals to validate the specific pain point that the 'dual network mode' solves, rather than just 'general privacy'.
Explore niche audiences who *desperately* need both fast and anonymous communication modes within a single app (e.g., journalists, activists, specific businesses) and if they would pay.
Investigate potential monetization models that don't rely on per-user subscription for core messaging, perhaps pro features for specific use cases or enterprise licenses.
Focus on a single, compelling use case or feature to overcome the network effect rather than a broad messaging app.
Validate if the technical trade-offs (Tor latency, eventual consistency) are acceptable for the target niche.

Fly Labs Method

Is the pain real, is there a gap, is it the right time, can one person build it.

Problem clarity: 22
Solution gap: 10
Willingness to pay: 8
Buildability: 12

The pain of privacy is real and growing, but the specific solution gap for 'dual network modes' is unproven. Strong network effects and the expectation of free services make monetization and user acquisition very challenging.

Value Equation

Dream outcome and how likely it feels, against the time and effort it costs.

This idea faces significant challenges in monetization and user acquisition due to strong free competitors and the network effect, despite a growing market for privacy.

One-Person Business

Curiosity pull, identity fit, and a path from free value to paid for a solo creator.

The project demonstrates strong technical prowess but faces significant hurdles in user acquisition, monetization, and mainstream simplicity.

Viral Frameworks

Hook strength, shareability, and how cheaply it can be tested.

Technically validated with a clear value proposition for a niche, but faces substantial challenges in distribution, monetization, and overcoming strong market assumptions.

Builder Lens

Evidence the problem exists, timing, defensibility, and a model that fits on a napkin.

Addresses a real problem of privacy, but lacks desperate specificity, a narrow entry point for payment, and a clear path to widespread adoption against strong incumbents.

Why this verdict

The core problem of digital privacy is undeniable and the market is growing. The technical solution of dual network modes is innovative and well-executed for a solo builder. However, the idea scores low on solution gap (against strong, free incumbents like Signal), willingness to pay, and the ability to attract and retain a user base due to the dominant network effect in messaging. While technically impressive, its commercial viability for a solo builder is highly questionable without further, deep market validation. The current market intelligence doesn't show a strong, specific signal that users would switch or pay for this particular solution over existing alternatives. Therefore, extensive validation is needed before committing more build time.

Five lenses, one composite. How scoring works

The angle

This weekend

Conduct in-depth user interviews with privacy-conscious individuals to validate the specific pain point that the 'dual network mode' solves, rather than just 'general privacy'.
Explore niche audiences who *desperately* need both fast and anonymous communication modes within a single app (e.g., journalists, activists, specific businesses) and if they would pay.
Investigate potential monetization models that don't rely on per-user subscription for core messaging, perhaps pro features for specific use cases or enterprise licenses.
Focus on a single, compelling use case or feature to overcome the network effect rather than a broad messaging app.
Validate if the technical trade-offs (Tor latency, eventual consistency) are acceptable for the target niche.

Who is already there, emerging market

SessionVisit
Session is an end-to-end encrypted messenger that routes messages through a decentralized onion network, hiding user IP addresses and physical locations.
Pricing: Free
ToxVisit
Tox is a P2P secure messenger service that runs as one global P2P network on multiple platforms.
Pricing: Free
RicochetVisit
Ricochet is a cross-platform desktop messenger built on the Tor secure network, offering anonymous communication.
Pricing: Free
MeshVisit
Mesh is a secure, anonymous, peer-to-peer instant messenger allowing pure P2P and anonymous profiles with Tor hidden service support.
Pricing: Free (Version 1.1 alpha)
SignalVisit
Signal is an end-to-end encrypted messaging app widely regarded as the gold standard for private communication.
Pricing: Free

What they charge

The current pricing landscape for secure P2P messengers is predominantly free, with many projects being open-source and community-driven (e.g., Session, Tox, Ricochet, Mesh, Signal). In the broader P2P texting space, which often caters to business or political campaigns, pricing typically involves monthly fees and per-message charges, often with volume-based discounts. For example, TextP2P offers plans ranging from $5/month (pay-as-you-go) to $84/month for 2,000 credits, plus additional fees for dedicated numbers and 10DLC registration. GetThru has a $300 setup fee and per-segment pricing starting at 4.5¢, with lower rates for volume commitments. RumbleUp charges a monthly fee ($19-$39) and per-segment SMS (2¢-3¢) and MMS (5¢-8¢) rates. This suggests that while core secure P2P messaging is free, services with additional features or catering to business use cases have tiered, usage-based pricing models.

A P2P messenger with dual network modes (Fast and Tor)

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